Pro Tools 10:Region Gain


I encountered an error this week after spending a week on a feature film dialogue edit where I was charged with leveling the audio using region gain within my dialogue edit. The mixer is not working with PT10, so the plan was to render my region gain automation and deliver the edit to him with 3 sec handles so he would have a full fader of volume to manipulate but levels would be approximate.

But, apparently there is an error in PT10 where audio data shifts within regions that crossfade to other regions upon rendering the gain info. I spent all last night hand phase syncing all my work in order to get back my edit that completed days ago. BOO!

I consulted the DUC but their proposed solutions are of little help to me after I have made an edit and I have another film to deliver tomorow which is in the same situation:edited with region gain info....waiting to be rendered and saved as a older PT session. Does anyone have any suggestions or workarounds for this? I really don't want to have to resync another 2 hour edit by hand. :(

Karol Urban

Posted 2012-09-11T20:27:35.567

Reputation: 1 614



You've probably already figured this out, but in case you haven't…

We are working on a project now where the picture department has used a lot clip gain. We needed to get out of that mode and into more standard volume graphing. Then we discovered under Edit>Automation the Coalesce clip gain to volume automation command (not in front of PT right now, so that path may be a little wonked). It performed beautifully, rendering the clip gain to volume automation and even straight-line graphing from one clip gain value to another within adjoining clips.

Worked like a charm, plus no rendering of new audio files.

Jay Jennings

Posted 2012-09-11T20:27:35.567

Reputation: 15 432

Great tip, didn't know about that! – Skarik – 2012-09-13T16:28:06.607

Yeah. I would love to use that but the gain applied ( due to very low production recordings) exceeds the volume available and the mixer wants volume at unity for the mix. :( But, thank you. – Karol Urban – 2012-09-13T20:56:17.487


It sounds like your problem is that you are delivering to someone who isn't capable of running PT10 currently, yet they are tasking you with using a function of PT10 specifically to do your dialog edit. Is that correct?

With the current bug in PT10 regarding rendering clip gain your options are to do what you are doing or:

A: Lose the handles and "consolidate clip." Consolidating clips renders the clip gain but does not move the audio, but you don't have handles.

B: Bus and Print dialog stems. No handles, rendered gain.

C: Convert clip gain to volume automation, but the mixer will begin their mix with your volume automation.

To me the problem is mainly that the mixer is not on PT10, yet tasking you with a PT10 function. Re-syncing by hand just seems risky, messy and lengthy.

I would offer a solution to the mixer of "consolidated clips" so that the clip gain is rendered and frame accurate, but before you do that, duplicate all your dialog tracks to dead tracks (no voices or IO) so that if the mixer needs to dig for handles he/she can. They will loose clip gain but that's because they don't have that function and they probably need to consider a software upgrade. my two cents.

Brad Dale

Posted 2012-09-11T20:27:35.567

Reputation: 543

Yeah...there needs to be a software upgrade but...I know he wants an edit not consolidated clips. Especially as the edit is pre-ADR additions. Thanks though. – Karol Urban – 2012-09-13T21:01:23.723


First of all, isn't it the mixers job to "level" the dialog? Second, you can just convert clip gain to volume automation, and then copy all of the volume auto into the Trim plugin. Third, you could wait for the update of Pro Tools that will fix this issue, but who knows when that will come out…

Chris M Jacobson CAS

Posted 2012-09-11T20:27:35.567

Reputation: 41

1I'll second Chris' automation suggestion. Probably the easiest/most effective work around at this point. In fairness to @MixingManiac though, she specifically was ASKED to perform this task, and DID have a workflow... it just turned out not to actually work they way they thought. – Sonsey – 2012-09-12T15:02:57.633

It is, but as I am also a mixer I provide a lot of functions for the mixers I work for in my dialogue edits by their request. Leveling, noise reduction, Futz procesing, etc... – Karol Urban – 2012-09-13T20:58:53.137

The trim suggestion is a good one. I don't think it will work for this film based on the amount of gain added...but, in future this may be a perfect solution. – Karol Urban – 2012-09-13T21:02:34.847


Pro Tools 10.3 (just released) should have solved this bug. not installed yet, so I just report the fix from the read me:

Plug-Ins and Processing Audio sync issues when rendering clip gain on clips with crossfades have been resolved. (PTSW-170425)

As others already wrote, I usually convert all the clip gain to Volume automation (watch out for 12 db gain limit of volume VS the 36 db of clip gain, and for clip gain inside clip groups: the group must be ungrouped to translate the clip gain to volume automation). Most of the time I copy the volume automation to a trim plugin (I always have a trim plugin just to be able to invert phase, even if in PT10 with audiosuite handles the invert plugin is much more convenient), and clear the volume automation, but it really depends how the rerecording mixer prefer to work.

Davide Favargiotti

Posted 2012-09-11T20:27:35.567

Reputation: 1 169

Thanks @Davide! I'm mid-project, but I'll have to inspect 10.3 immediately after I wrap. – Steve Urban – 2012-09-14T23:08:41.163

SWEEET!!! Wish it was out last week... – Karol Urban – 2012-09-15T23:15:56.560


Select all clips in the timeline lower the clip gain a sensible amount so that when you coalesce the clip level to automation the balance still works. Insert trim plugin on all channels adding the same amount. 1:1 and will work with older or systems, although clip gain is a much better/faster tool in itself.


Posted 2012-09-11T20:27:35.567

Reputation: 706


Why not just print the dialog to one ore more stems and deliver your originals as inactive tracks along with those stems. If your dialog edits sound smooth and good the stems will be all the mixer needs, he will only need to have access to the original clips/ regions in a few cases probably, which he will have on those original dialog clips on the inactive tracks (be it with incorrect level due to the missing clip-gain).

Max Frick

Posted 2012-09-11T20:27:35.567

Reputation: 131