Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space (Worlds Inc) - Issued Patent - PRIOR ART REQUEST

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As an example back around April a company called World Inc. started suing major video game companies like Blizzard, regarding patents 8,082,501, 7,493,558, 7,945,856 and 7,181,690 "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space".(original filing, November 1995).

Lawsuit Story

Virtual reality systems to the best of my knowledge were being developed and tested before November 1995(see the guys at VRML - April 1995, but started work in 1994) not to mention many games, although while primitive also used various aspects of what they are claiming. See CitySpace (1993,1994 - SIGGRAPH), various Text Based (MUDS), Wolfenstein 3D(July 1995), Worlds Away(September 1995), Habitat(1986, 1988, 1990, 1994), Neverwinter Nights(1991)

To my eyes their patent claim describes pretty much any 3D multiplayer computer game in which the game is hosted by a central server.

geeksweep

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 423

You should consider narrowing this down to a specific claim - or at least a specific patent. While obviously all related, these each make slightly different claims, which is pretty important when you're looking for prior art. Putting these all in one question might be biting off a bit too much at once. – Shog9 – 2012-09-21T00:07:34.400

What about articles found through Netrek; Maze_War (date unclear) and Spasim (1974), both on wikipedia? – james – 2012-09-21T00:20:56.450

geeksweep, Also, it is perfectly acceptable to post answers to your own prior art query below. In this case it would probably be preferable. When you continually edit to add more and more "answers" in the space of your question, it doesn't allow other users to vet the prior art suggestions through voting and comments. Add your edits/answers below. – Robert Cartaino – 2012-09-21T00:21:24.243

So if I understand correctly 0. We think there is a case of prior art

  1. But we cannot make a pre issuance submission (6 month time limit after application)
  2. So, now we simply step back? Or is it down to blizzard to pay 18k? In detail rule change proposed:

http://inventivestep.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/2011-33811.pdf Clearer write up http://inventivestep.net/2012/01/05/proposed-rule-for-third-party-prior-art-submissions/

– you cad sir - take that – 2012-09-20T22:08:30.010

Also netrek(as james said)-1988, Lawnmower man(1992)- based on William Gibsons books(1980s), possible Doom(1993) – geeksweep – 2012-09-21T13:49:50.863

@shog. (“System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space”) for all of their claims compared to all the prior art I listed should be enough to invalidate all 4 patents regardless of the specific details. Each claim revolves around client-server communications and keeping up with positions of other people in a virtual space (in 3D) and updating said positions(and orientations) so all the players can see the updates among other kinds of updates. Worlds Inc may have some wiggle room with regards to "3D Avatar" but even if so, the patents shouldnt be able to stand on just that. – geeksweep – 2012-09-21T14:04:46.520

@geeksweep: I'm afraid that might be wishful thinking - when it comes to patents, the devil lives in the details... – Shog9 – 2012-09-21T16:36:57.783

@shog9 - I guess i was trying to say in every one of those patents everything revolves around a virtual environment and the communication of virtual people(identified through avatars) through a mechanism used in a client server mechanism. There are other things added into that but in a nutshell thats what they have claimed as their invention. I think that I have given enough prior art to void most of those claims. What do you think? – geeksweep – 2012-09-21T18:47:49.550

I think it's a long shot, but if you want to focus on that then you should quote (briefly) the claims from each patent that focus on that. Keep in mind, the fact that they're all similar (and similar to many, many systems from the past) likely means the focus will be on small, purportedly-unique differences in each - so being able to dredge up past work that matches these will be the most useful result. – Shog9 – 2012-09-21T19:11:21.440

@shog9, would you recommend that I edit my original post or make a new thread with the same content but using each of my prior art claims with specific prior art that I want to use? I thought that a large part of this site was helping each other out(including patent lawyers??) with researching specifics in prior art claims. Whether i change my original thread here or make a new one I will definitely need help in scouring their claimed patents one by one here and using our prior art claims - the ones that have been linked and coupled with that. What do you suggest? – geeksweep – 2012-09-21T19:32:18.500

@shog9 - another thing to note is that Worlds Inc. didnt use their so called "inventions" to make anything. Some would speculate that they waited too long to defend their patents(invalid or not) and thus they have become invalid. Thats something else that i would like to explore with someone more familiar with patent laws. I knew about this patent because this same company sued NCSoft(resulted in a settlement out of court) and is now suing Blizzard over the same stuff among other companies. – geeksweep – 2012-09-21T19:34:26.443

I would recommend starting with one of these patents, and creating a new question focused the claims in that. Once you've gotten a good response there, you can continue with the rest of the patents, cross-linking your questions to make it easier for folks to find and compare notes. – Shog9 – 2012-09-21T19:35:19.390

Answers

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Providing prior art around the concept (as opposed to alternative implementations) would include the book Snow Crash, published by Neil Stephenson in 1992 - that goes into incredible detail describing several interactions related to a Virtual Space.

Salman

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 181

4Neuromancer by William Gibson from 1984 pretty much coined Cyberspace as a form of Virtual Space/Virtual Reality. The technology described there is rather ahead of ours though. – larsivi – 2012-09-20T16:55:34.870

and LawnMower Man (1992) which i added earlier is based on that book. Their claim of "a highly scalable architecture for a three-dimensional graphical, multi-user, interactive virtual world system. In a preferred embodiment a plurality of users interact in the three-dimensional, computer-generated graphical space where each user executes a client process to view a virtual world from the perspective of that user" basically describes everything Gibson talked about and was portrayed about in the movie. – geeksweep – 2012-09-20T18:46:06.920

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Examples of online, real-time, interactive, three-dimensional "virtual reality"-type multiplayer interaction in the commercial sector date back to at least 1995; earlier if you count the development time needed prior to the official public release.

Meridian 59 was (is?) one of the first MMOs. It has all attributes I've listed above (online, real-time, interactive, three-dimensional, multiplayer) in their most basic form.

Underlight came three years later in 1998, but I am aware of the fact that very large chunks of the source code comprising this game were copyrighted as early as 1993-1994, and private beta testing with members of the public was available prior to 1998.

I am not sure if text based interfaces would count as prior art, but certainly anything that is even in the same class as MMORPGs (think World of Warcraft, just much more primitive) would have to be legitimate prior art, I think. That said, I have not read the full text of those patents, so more research would be needed to determine whether titles such as Meridian 59 could count as prior art for one or more of the claims in those patents.

allquixotic

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 231

yeah i forgot about Meridian 59(but the wiki says December of 1995?). I think we could put together a strong case here. Obviously the guys at the patent office were not gamers. To me Neverwinter Nights(1991) is a slam dunk IMO but someone with a keener eye will have to take a look to confirm or not. – geeksweep – 2012-09-20T16:41:42.257

i forgot to add that i am sure the development cycle predated the release date of Dec. 1995) so i think that it definitely includes prior art. – geeksweep – 2012-09-20T16:49:04.850

Does it have to be published to the general public in order to count as prior art? – allquixotic – 2012-09-20T17:02:29.723

not totally sure but I would think so. If you were part of an IRC chat room back then everyone was talking about and discussing at length about 3D virtual environments and the latest findings/research of this topic from the private sector. The "obviousness test" fails here in my opinion for the patent holder. – geeksweep – 2012-09-20T17:13:00.957

The first multiplayer 3D game I remember was Descent which was released March 17, 1995

– Nick Hildebrant – 2013-07-23T10:29:52.197

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xpilot (released in 1991) provides everything as described in the patent except for the 3D aspect.

Is adding another visual dimension sufficiently novel for the purposes of a patent? (apparently not)

An article in the ACM magazine may talk about how it works, but I can't read it you can read it on the wayback machine.

The earliest copy of the XPilot FAQ I can find is from 1995/04/23.

The earliest copy of the XPilot source I can find (not that I've tried much) is from 2001 on sourceforge - too recent.

I'm sure someone has earlier source / documentation lying around…

MikeyB

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 161

no i don't think so. otherwise everything 3D could have been patented and companies like SGI(Silicon Graphics) could have owned everything related to 3D. In a general sense the idea of going from 2D to 3D isn't innovative or non-obvious. People have been studying different dimensions for eons, so 3D is not some miraculous discovery. – geeksweep – 2012-09-20T17:19:37.307

The first patent in the chain doesn't require 3D looking through the site Xpilot definitely seems relevant. Is there any specific documentation of the client server interaction from 1991, or basically before 1995? – Plepleus – 2012-09-20T17:44:43.257

1Added links to the main body. While not specific, it looks promising: "In spring 1993, he embarked on something we didn't have the motivation to embark on, but it is perhaps the single most important factor for the game's success as an Internet game. He split the game into two processes, a client and a server." – MikeyB – 2012-09-20T18:34:08.067

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How about prior art in the form of another patent? See: US5899810

I filed this when my company fielded "Terra: Battle for the Outlands" back in the mid-'90s. We came from the distributed simulation world (BBN SIMNET, circa 1983) where nothing was done on a central computer. That worked great over low-latency high-bandwidth connections, but worked lousy over modems. So we moved the "world state" into a central computer. Our patent covers one way to manage that process, such that users perceive less latency than there really is. It sounds a lot like the system described in these patents, and predates them by about 10 years.

Joshua Smith

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 161

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While looking through old newsgroups I was able to find this possible prior art:


TwisterGame on Network
by Masaki FUJIHATA, Nobuya Suzuki
Keio University, Faculty of Environmental Information
April-1994

Aim and condition:

1: Experimentation for connecting 2 different places by an electrical network, using telephone line with modem.

2: A collaboratation in one virtual place where participant will arise through the network. They are remotely connected from their own place. Each participant will share same experience in this virtual place.

3: To examine and construct the rule based framework for sharing an experience.


There was also a presentation at "Networked Reality 1994". Quote from a PDF of the event:

Session 3, was titled Networked Reality Systems and featured three presentations...a networked virtual space implementation of the Twister parlor game, by Fujihata and Suzuki of Keio University.

The networked reality implementation of the Twister game consists of having human operators manipulate, via joysticks, tripedal clones of themselves in a virtual space equipped with a virtual Twister mat. The system was demonstrated on 18 February, 1994 by linking the site of IMAGINA '94 (Monte Carlo, France) with Keio University in Yokohama.

...Twister game presentations had associated demonstration systems available during session breaks.

Problem is that this is probably just peer to peer (modem), not enough detail to tell whether a server is involved.

Djudson

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 31

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While founded in 1999, it would be interesting to see some of the prior art that might come from Linden Labs and the founder Philip Rosedale. As I recall when the company was founded it was based off some ideas and projects that had originated from his college days down in San Diego.

However, if we want to discuss some of the earliest prior art that uses virtual reality and user perspective and client/server architecture then I think that Maze War is a very strong candidate. With origins going back to 1973, I believe among other things it was also the first person shooter in existence.

The wikipedia article makes for an interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze_War

While I'm not terribly good at reading patents, looking at the abstract of 8,082,501 seems to perfectly describe Maze Wars as I remember it from my early days at the high school Mac lab.

Iedaddy

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 121

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The old GEnie network offered Air Warrior, a WWII air combat simulator. You could also drive jeeps, parachute from a plane, etc. starting in 1986.

james

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 111

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And TheSierraNetwork had Red Baron multiplayer running in 1992/93, which seems to meet all the claims (your avatar just happens to be a plane...)

– AShelly – 2012-09-21T14:07:22.880

thats a good one. If anything their 4 patents are way too broad to not conflict with prior art as we have listed many. They might get away with '3D avatar" but ill have to do more research in that but that and that alone is not what they are claiming. – geeksweep – 2012-09-21T15:28:57.457

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From memory, Doom didn't transmit player coordinates. It transmitted keypresses, and relied on starting up with synchronised random seeds to keep the game in sync between players.

Other games that might be interesting: Spectre VR (1993?) and NetTrek (1984, I think).

How admissible are closed-source games, anyway? Does the publication of an application which uses a technique but doesn't publicly describe it at the time actually count?

regularfry

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 121

Your last paragraph sounds like it would make a good question on its own. – Adam Lear – 2012-09-21T14:34:59.450

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What about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetWars

This was bundled with Novell Netware systems. It let 4 players fly around in 3d space and shoot each other.

NetWars was an IPX-based 3D vector-graphics computer game released by Novell in 1993 for DOS to demonstrate NetWare capabilities. It was written by Edward Hill, one of Novell's engineers in its European Development Centre (EDC) in Hungerford, UK. Development had started in 1989.

Tim Bray

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 111

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Swedish Institute of Computer Science developed a virtual avatar-based environment, starting in 1991. The earliest report I can find regarding the work is from 1993: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.17.2571

Lars Albertsson

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 11

0

The game Midi Maze from 1989 for the Atari ST would have a claim for prior art.

The guys at midimaze.de know a lot more about the gameplay.

Triggsy

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 1

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Sierra Online had a Red Barron multi-play 3D flying game.

I remember playing it prior to 1995, so it must date before this filing.

I am unsure if their technology stack required a central server, or if it was peer-to-peer. I do remember you could dogfight multiple users at the same time, over a modem.

sweller

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 1

1It was almost certainly peer-to-peer. – Joshua Smith – 2012-09-28T15:53:52.163

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I have a box full of prior art that has been used in several cases like this.

The history of virtual worlds significantly predates Worlds, Inc. - just do searches on "Lucasfilm's Habitat" (1986 video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVpulhO3jyc), and a decade later Worlds Away (bogus patent with my name on it here: http://www.google.com/patents/US6476830)

There are several generations of this software during this period, in the US and internationally.

F. Randall Farmer

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 101

0

the University Of Washington had a department back in the 80's that was doing extensive research on virtual worlds, head mounted displays, datagloves as input devices etc.. They were one of the pioneers in this field.

codeslinger

Posted 2012-09-20T16:24:31.397

Reputation: 151