Reading remarks from Royal Hospital, Chelsea record from early 19th century?

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The below picture is cropped from an image at Ancestry.com's UK, Royal Hospital, Chelsea: Regimental Registers of Pensioners, 1713-1882:

enter image description here

It relates to my 4th great grandfather Edmund Rouse who has been the subject of a previous Q&A here about Establishing identity of Edmund Rouse of St Clement, Cabinet Maker, Private in Napoleonic Wars and Weaver?

In previous columns of the same row are pieces of information that give me confidence that this is the same Edmund Rouse that I have identified as my 4th great grandfather:

  • Admission: May 1812
  • Name: Edmd Rouse
  • Age: 34
  • something about 28 Foot (which is the regiment the earlier Q&A said he was in 1804-1809)
  • something in the Private column that I cannot read but it may be the numbers of years he had that rank in different regiments
  • Service: 9 4/12 (presumably 9 years, 4 months)
  • Rate per day: 6d
  • Complaint: nodes on his legs from repeated venereal complaints
  • Where Born: Truro, Cornwall
  • Trade or Occupation: Carpet Weaver

The row from which the cropped image comes is the Remarks, and I think it says:

D. D. Pagent's list / 24 June 181?

Is anybody able to work out the significance of this remark?

I am wondering whether D. D. Pagent may have been a military commander, and whether the date is perhaps the date of a battle.

PolyGeo

Posted 2019-02-08T10:28:02.660

Reputation: 10 741

Can you add some reference for the source so those of us wanting to view it elsewhere can do so? – ColeValleyGirl – 2019-02-08T11:00:13.900

Also, previous question said he finished his service in 59th foot not 28th. – ColeValleyGirl – 2019-02-08T11:03:56.873

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That's a truly nasty set of scans. Very poor detail, really needs rescanning in decent greyscale or colour. Ancestry UK link. "DD" seems to be a fairly common note on other entries, usually followed by a date and reference. "Died" is also common and "Discharged" appears too. I'm wondering if "DD" stands for "Discharged Deceased" or similar. Possibly followed by a reference to "agents list" then the date?

– AndyW – 2019-02-08T11:10:31.700

1@ColeValleyGirl The first page of the image set is an index, which states that the first folio of records (including this entry) are from the 59th foot. There's a note in Rouse's row (or perhaps the one below) that mentions the 28th foot too, but the rest is sadly illegible. – AndyW – 2019-02-08T11:13:53.780

@AndyW discharged deceased should not apply because he baptized two more children in Truro (with his carpet weaving occupation mentioned) before being buried in 1819 aged 41. – PolyGeo – 2019-02-08T11:28:10.060

1@PolyGeo I did think that "deceased" was less likely after I posted. But that date at the end could be 1819. Do you know when Edmund died that year? – AndyW – 2019-02-08T11:40:57.077

@AndyW Discharged Diseased sounds very likely, given the cause of his discharge was nodes on the leg due to repeated venereal complaints (most likely syphilis given the description although it could have been gonorrhoea). Wouldn't have stopped him having more children even if he hadn't been cured (very unlikely back then) although the thought these days is horrifying. PolyGeo, what was the infant mortality of his later children like? And how long did his wife live after his return? – ColeValleyGirl – 2019-02-08T11:54:42.627

1Also, Discharged Deceased might refer to why his pension stopped being paid not why he left the Army. – ColeValleyGirl – 2019-02-08T12:15:56.590

@ColeValleyGirl Yes, I think that column is largely for discharge from the pension, not from the army. The "Complaint" column seems to cover the army discharge reason. – AndyW – 2019-02-08T12:56:20.493

3I always think that DD means Discharged, Dead - discharged from the pension that is - and if the illegible year matched his burial, that would fit. Is it DD payouts list? – AdrianB38 – 2019-02-08T13:24:48.637

1In my experience DD also usually means Discharged, Dead. From memory there were a series of published monthly returns for out-patients in receipt of a pension from the Royal Hospital, Chelsea that included a section titled '*Pensions Ceased by Death*. It would be worth locating the returns for that month and checking if Edmund Rouse appears. – sempaiscuba – 2019-02-08T17:10:24.633

I can't see the original because it's only on the Australian version of Ancestry.com and I don't have an international subscription (I'm in the US). But that says "26 June" not "24 June." The year is either 1810, 1816, or 1818 (in that order). – Cyn says make Monica whole – 2019-02-08T20:33:13.950

@AndyW Edmund was buried at St Clement, Cornwall on 19 Jan 1819 so I'm now thinking that date may be 26 June 1819 (when an agent provided a list of recently deceased regimental pensioners. – PolyGeo – 2019-02-08T23:14:17.463

@ColeValleyGirl His wife Kitty (Christian nee Crossman) is last seen in the 1851 Census at Truro St Mary, aged 76. The two children born after Edmund's return from his service were William Crossman Rouse (baptised 5 Sep 1813, death registered Oct 1890; my 3rd great grandfather) and Elizabeth Rouse (baptised 31 Jan 1819 i.e. same day Edmund was buried; and death registered Jan 1890). – PolyGeo – 2019-02-08T23:21:32.250

Thanks for all the excellent help - I'll try to get more information about the source of this image. I look forward to an answer being synthesized from the comments. – PolyGeo – 2019-02-08T23:24:46.430

It's hardly scientific, but I did Google searches for both June 24, 1810 - 1819 and June 26, 1810 - 1819, and there are no results that would seem to apply in this case. Napoleon invaded Russia on June 24, 1812, but no British units would have been involved there. And there was a small battle in the War of 1812 on June 24, 1813, but the participants were almost exclusively American and Native American, with the British only showing up at the end. So whatever the significance of the date, it appears unlikely it was related to any battle. – Jack – 2019-02-17T06:43:23.793

Answers

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In "Tracing Your Army Ancestors, Third Edition: A Guide for Family Historians" by Simon Fowler (ISBN 9781473876392), there is a section on Pension Records. From a Google Books scan:

The most common entry was 'DD' for discharged dead. Occasionally the date of death is given as well.

"DD" is certainly a common remark, based on a brief perusal of the record set linked in the question. So I think it is reasonable to conclude that this is the case in Rouse's entry, and that the date relates to that as well. This doesn't look like his date of death, as he was buried months earlier, so is probably the date when the pension administrators discharged Edmund having had his death reported to them.

The "Tracing Ancestors" page on the webiste of the Royal Hospital Chelsea, home of the Pensioners, says:

Out-Pensioners: those who lived 'Out', in the UK or abroad and received their pension in cash from agents around the country.

These same agents probably sent news of out-pensioner deaths back to the administrators, as the "agent's list" in the record.

AndyW

Posted 2019-02-08T10:28:02.660

Reputation: 4 416