How should I deal with an employee who has slept with my wife?

529

116

I'm the owner of a business with about 30-40 employees. Recently, I found out that one of my employees has been having an affair with my wife. The employee has worked for me for 4 years. I felt like I was his mentor, since I recruited straight from university, taught him the ropes, and promoted him to a leadership role for one of our main products.

My wife has since left me. I've spoken to him, and he says he's sorry about what's happened but he's also not leaving. He says his relationship with my wife should not be a work matter and he's put too much work into the company to just get fired just because I'm the boss.

I'm bitter and would like him to leave the company, but I'm also realistic. He has been an important part of the company. He's the oldest employee that's still around, he knows the application inside out, and while I wouldn't say he's indispensable, he's close to it. At the same time, every time I see his face, I feel like that just kills me inside.

As his superior, what can I do in this situation? We're a close knit bunch but nobody knows about these personal issues at work. Right now, I'm acting as professionally as I can.

Waiter John

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 821

153I'm voting to reopen in its present state. Sometimes, personal issues can spill into the office. There are 14 other questions with the [tag:relationships] tag, some of which are about maintaining, ending, or restoring personal and professional relationships. Given some out-of-office actions that affect a relationship, I just don't see how questions about that professional aspect of the relationship are off-topic.Thomas Owens 2013-01-09T15:22:27.797

15<commentary removed> Please keeps comments to issues of improving the the question. Comments are not designed to answer the question, and try not to turn this into a miniature chat room. Thanks.Robert Cartaino 2013-01-09T15:41:12.213

11Related meta discussion - please take discussion regarding the on-topic nature of the question there.Shog9 2013-01-09T17:41:19.390

6Comments removed: Please use [chat] for extended discussions. Comments are intended to help users improve their posts.jmort253 2013-01-12T04:39:48.670

20Any updates on what ended up happening?AndreiROM 2016-02-02T19:23:46.773

No need long answers. Simple answer is, Just Fired him because "you will never be able to trust him again. "....I am the Most Stupid Person 2018-02-22T04:46:39.110

Answers

392

In your shoes I would first speak to someone well-versed in employment law and see if their actions constitute a breach of trust. Their actions have clearly affected your working relationship to a point at which it is untenable (and I have to say I am impressed with your level of professionalism thus far - not sure I could manage that!).

I think it's optimistic to assume that your working relationship will improve over time, and I believe that assuming it's not breaking the law you should get him out as soon as possible.

When you say

he's put too much work into the company to just get fired just because I'm the boss.

I would say that any potential firing would not be 'because you're the boss': it would be primarily driven by the lack of trust in your relationship (I cannot see how you could ever trust him again).

His tone seems to be quite arrogant, and this may spill into his working practices (which I would investigate as much as you can). Being the most versed in the company in a given area does not mean that you are necessarily working appropriately, or that no one else could come in and improve performance.

Dibstar

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 3 243

137+1 for you last comment -- if this employee thinks his value to the company is so great he can "get away with" disrupting his boss's personal life, it could easily undermine the boss's authority in a professional context.KutuluMike 2013-01-09T17:28:04.930

53Adultry is illegal in more than half of the states. It is also considered unbecoming behavior and reflects negatively on the character of the perpetrator. Firing this specific employee for sleeping with your wife is perfectly reasonable and legal -- his actions make it impossible for you to trust him to execute his responsibilities as your employee.kingdango 2013-01-09T18:06:56.003

8I'm pretty sure that the employee's actions would be considered a 'revelation of character' which constitutes cause for dismissal (at least in Canada). With cause you can rightly fire the employee without notice or severance pay.alx9r 2013-01-09T19:59:42.143

59If this guy will screw your wife in bed, you better believe he'll try to screw you in court. +1 for speaking with a lawyer (or two) before taking action against him.n00b 2013-01-09T21:58:38.497

5Comments removed: Please remember that comments are used to help a poster clarify his or her post and are not intended for extended discussion. Please take discussions to [chat].jmort253 2013-01-12T04:49:42.900

@kingdango has the employee committed adultery in this scenario? It was the OP's wife who made a commitment to him. Sleeping with a consenting married person is a bit wrong but it's the spouse that's in breach of a marriage contract. I doubt the employee's work contract says anything specifically about keeping his hands off the boss' missus. Not saying the OP shouldn't be able to fire the employee though...Brent Hackers 2017-10-04T12:22:32.370

@BrentHackers http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/A/Adultery.aspx

kingdango 2017-10-05T13:45:53.530

253

What concerns me most is the attitude in the statement "he's put too much work into the company to just get fired just because I'm the boss." This is a person who has access to all the source code for your systems and as a team lead is likely to have production server access. This is a very dangerous person. With this attitude, he may very well be using the code to steal from you or have set up a a backdoor to get in from outside or have set up something in the code to blow up your systems if he is fired. This is not the normal attitude of a person who has been caught in an affair. Since he knew he was having an affair and that it was likely he could be fired if found out, I would be very wary of this person. He also could be providing your wife with information that will let her take more of your assets.

The first thing I would do is make sure you have up-to-date backups of everything! And then I would make sure that they were off-site. This type of person is the kind who is likely to have put something into the code to blow it up if he is fired. You need to protect your data and your applications.

Next, I would hire someone to take his place. I might even, depending on how insecure I felt the data and application was, hire this person and have him work at first with a copy of the application and data somewhere outside the office. Then have his first task be to assess if there is a danger to the code from something this other person put in. I might even look for and hire a security expert as a consultant to do this.

Now once I have protected my data I would take one of two actions. If you are in the US and work in an "At will" state, I would fire him. Then immediately change all passwords to all servers and databases.

If you are elsewhere or don't know for sure that you are in a state where you can fire without cause, I would immediately consult a labor lawyer to find out what actions you can take to protect your company. If it is not legally possible to fire him, you might be able to reassign him to a newly created position that has no duties and remove his access to code, databases and servers. (Change all passwords if you do.)

HLGEM

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 125 647

136It is also possible that he and your wife have made plans to steal the company from you in the divorce (which would explain the attitutude). Whatever action you take concerning him needs to happen as soon as possible to prevent that. And make sure you talk to a divorce lawyer immediately about how to protect your company assets.HLGEM 2013-01-09T16:18:41.047

27+1 for "Since he knew he was having an affair..." and "reassign him to a newly created position that has no duties"bytebuster 2013-01-09T19:04:43.143

18Incidentally, it's not always legal to move someone into a role where they are clearly not wanted. In New Zealand, for example, this could be considered "constructive dismissal", where "an employer puts pressure (directly or indirectly) on an employee to resign"Hamish 2013-01-10T02:19:13.923

10@HLGEM Your comment should really be part of your answer. Since it's very realistic.Leri 2013-01-10T10:50:44.377

6The "it's not what you did, it's that you didn't tell me about what you did" argument is almost never actually true. And the attitude "I've put too much work into the company to get fired just because you're the boss" sounds to me like someone who want's to keep his job. Other than quitting, what do you expect him to sound like? I don't condone sleeping with someone else's spouse, but there is really no sign he is "that type" of person - one who will blow up the codebase or steal data. Also, frankly the owner might be better of if the employee did do something illegal.psr 2013-01-10T18:15:05.973

4But it's not bad advice to take the security precautions he should have been doing all along anyway.psr 2013-01-10T18:15:30.980

+1 for at will state. Here in New York my boss can fire me just because. So long as it's not based on a protected category.Randy E 2013-01-11T04:25:19.863

1Super-paranoid answer. I would say that it is not very likely that he will want to damage the company, however if so the damage would be big. So it's worth to be warry.Tomas 2013-01-11T12:49:26.223

8It's amazing the the U.S. has come to this age where you can't fire a dude that slept with your wife. If the law is really that strict then first of all I'd stop complimenting the guy. The more you compliment him the worse case you have for firing him. Secondly, fire him ASAP. He probably anticipates being fired so he's already thinking two steps ahead of you. Leaving the fox the guard the hen house doesn't seem wise.annoying_squid 2013-01-11T18:07:52.887

2After reading the comments below I think you should be least worried about this employee. I'd worry more about your soon to be ex-wife getting half of your business. Sorry man. Next time get to know the woman really well before you tell her you have assets.annoying_squid 2013-01-11T18:21:09.417

5When you reassign him, hand him a shovel and make him dig a hole for the first 4 hours of the day, let him take a lunch break, then make him fill in the hole he dug for the last 4 hours of the day. Repeat daily. He'll quit by the end of the week.Joel B 2013-01-13T00:30:46.000

5If you can't fire a guy for doing this, then you should be able to talk about it. Openly. In the office. In front of everybody.Erik Reppen 2013-01-14T14:06:44.800

4I would change the order of things a little. If he is going to be fired, change the passwords prior to his dismissal, or while he is being dismissed. Changing them afterwords may give him the opportunity to seek revenge.rcollyer 2013-01-17T04:55:14.417

2-1, strong disagreement: This type of person is the kind who is likely to have put something into the code to blow it up if he is fired. This answer could be cautioning the OP, but instead I feel it is inciting him. It seems to raise a lot of aggressive confrontational behaviour, that seems to me paranoid and unnecessarily belligerent.ANeves 2014-02-04T15:50:43.137

8@ANeves, I have personally seen people sabotage software for personal gain. It is not paranoid. The person is acting as if he has something that trumps the guy being the boss. The person needs to protect his product from a person who has complete access to it. Only someone with untrustworthy would behave this way, so you have to revoke any trust you have given him including his access to your code.HLGEM 2014-02-04T16:13:53.340

139

My answer - if the law where you are allows it - is lock the guy out of all his accounts (and the building) and fire him immediately. Let him collect his physical stuff, give him whatever severance pay is required and show him the door. My logic is that you will never be able to trust him again. He's already betrayed you personally, in spite of the personal attention you've given him and connection you felt you had. How do you know he won't betray your company? Better to be safe than sorry.

Even if he never does anything wrong within the workplace, as long as he continues working for you it is possible that you'll eventually lose control and do or say something inappropriate which will expose you to legal ramifications. Thus, even if you believe he'd never do anything to hurt your company, your relationship with him is untenable. Get him out as quickly and cleanly as possible. If you can't fire him, make it clear he's unwelcome and ask him to resign.

GreenMatt

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 15 129

1

@GreenMatt, He's asking should he deserve to be fired or not.

Pacerier 2015-05-05T20:25:17.217

@Pacerier: This question has undergone several modifications. My answer was to its original form. That said, I don't get the point of your comment. If the question were a genuine situation (we've found out it's not, check the comments), I would still think firing the guy is the best course of action.GreenMatt 2015-05-06T01:31:27.340

@GreenMatt, Your answer is "~fire him, you'll never be able to trust him again" which comes from the author's point of view. Whereas the discussion is more of According to a fair 3rd-party view, does he deserve to be fired or not.Pacerier 2015-05-25T00:17:28.090

15This is not an option in the UK. "Sleeping with the Boss's wife" is not a sackable offence. If you did this, you'd be in an industrial tribunal and on the front pages of the tabloids in an instant.ChrisF 2013-01-09T14:16:38.580

56

@ChrisF: That's why I put "if the law where you are allows it" into my answer. Many states in the U.S. allow "at-will employment", so an employee can be fired at any time for any (or no) reason.

GreenMatt 2013-01-09T14:30:57.543

15@GreenMatt: Just to clarify, any (or no) reason except protected reasons. For instance, you can't fire someone because of their race, gender, sexuality, etc. unless that particular attribute is a necessary aspect of the job (and that's usually a tough case to make)Adam Robinson 2013-01-09T18:10:41.457

1@AdamRobinson: Good point, thanks.GreenMatt 2013-01-09T18:12:35.957

8+1 for the "trust" aspect. Especially if he has contact with clients.Izkata 2013-01-09T19:01:26.177

2@ChrisF - Do you have a reference for your statement (ie. a statute or case law?). Also, are you sure you're talking about an employer-employee relationship and not a labour relationship? Your statement differs with my experience in Canada, so I am curious how this came to be in the UK.alx9r 2013-01-09T20:04:44.060

2@alx9r - we have laws to cover "unfair dismissal" in the UK. You can only be sacked for failing to do the job in some way. Sleeping with the boss's wife is not failing to do your job.ChrisF 2013-01-09T22:53:24.057

@ChrisF - thanks for that. "Unfair Dismissal in the UK" is the string I needed to search for. It seems Canada has no equivalent statute to the UK's Employment Rights Act of 1996.

alx9r 2013-01-09T23:04:04.930

25@ChrisF I think I hear the sound of employers everywhere adding "while at all times, not sleeping with boss' wife" to job description right after "other duties as necessary".Cade Roux 2013-01-09T23:04:19.073

8@ChrisF - I'm fairly sure this would count as 'gross misconduct', so would not be unfair dismissal. Of course, the employee could still try to take the employer to a tribunal, which may be difficult for a small company to bear..ns476 2013-01-10T02:39:56.763

3@ns476 - I don't see how it could be gross misconduct - but then I'm not an employment lawyer.ChrisF 2013-01-10T08:54:37.173

2Even in the UK, I believe you could follow the companies disiplininary process on the grounds of "Undermining trust between employee and manager". Even if this does end up in an employment tribunal, the cost is likely to be lower than the damage and lost opportunity cost to the business of keeping this guy in the office, with everyone knowing whats happened.Michael Shaw 2013-01-13T11:46:07.707

He's shown himself to be untrustworthy. I may not be an employment lawyer in any official capacity, but I can tell you that breach of trust is a completely legitimate reason to be fired. Even worse, it's a clear indicator that he has no respect for you as a person or as a colleague, which is not a sackable offence, but certainly adds to the weight of evidence against him.Polynomial 2013-01-24T14:32:24.677

@ChrisF According to gov.uk: "You can be dismissed for ‘gross misconduct’ without your employer going through the normal disciplinary procedures. This can happen if, for example, you’re violent towards a colleague, customer or property." and I'm quite sure sleeping with your boss's wife counts as gross misconduct.DividedByZero 2017-04-01T21:55:15.043

It's obviously very painful. - As it turns out, this was a fake questionIDrinkandIKnowThings 2013-10-22T17:53:00.263

This is an amazingly succinct answer. HOW CAN YOU TRUST THIS GUY????Code Whisperer 2014-01-27T18:12:04.917

3Regarding potential gross misconduct, I'm not a lawyer but naively I want to consider this the other way around as a reasonableness check. If a boss sleeps with an employee's wife, then has the boss committed a gross misconduct that his boss would sack him for? It's exactly the same breach of trust, after all, and applying a principle unequally can, I think, count against the employer. So do you need to be sure you'd sack the one before sacking the other? And what if the owner of the company (who has no boss) does it? Constructive dismissal by breaching trust with the employee?Steve Jessop 2014-04-15T22:02:23.080

1@SteveJessop: Not sure you can really apply the reverse, at least not in every situation. If the boss is just a middle manager, then he may be subject to firing. However, if he's an owner or partner, he isn't likely to fire himself. I'm not a lawyer either, so won't address the legalities in such a situation, and they may vary with location. That said, if my boss slept with my wife I'd be in no position to fire him, but I would probably quit my job, which in a way is "firing your employer".GreenMatt 2014-04-23T19:34:31.660

54

Strictly responding to the "business" aspect: I believe that one way or another the employee should go. We are in the case where we cannot have a proper functional working relationship. In this cases one should go. Because of the company's size (small/middle), a transfer to another department "far-away" from you is not possible, so leaving is the only option. Because the owner cannot leave, the employee should go.

Additionally you offer employment to a big number of people and living with extra stress from a single person within your working life might have an effect to the rest of the people working there (if this causes issues to company's performance). For the benefit of the whole versus one person, I believe he should go.

Dimitrios Mistriotis

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 1 795

52

Imagine that you had two employees, and one of them slept with the other's wife.

What would you do in that situation? The guy's actions, and the disruption to team dynamics aren't nothing. But you have to be able to understand them in the context of you not being the aggrieved party.

Before this happened to you, could you see yourself getting rid of the guy who had been aggrieved if the other guy was the better worker - "to help team dynamics"?

If you a) are sure you wouldn't do that, and b) the team dynamics have been disrupted, then you should talk to an employment lawyer about the next steps.

But if you would act differently if it wasn't you, then you have a different answer.

Alex Andronov

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 319

+1 - Speak with an employment lawyer/specialist, get advice as this needs to be seen from the eyes of a business owner, and not an aggrieved partner which is going to be hard to do in your situation.Mark Robinson 2013-01-10T10:27:32.273

6+1 For the exercise of imagining this happening between two others, with no difference in power.Peter 2014-08-14T16:24:19.263

43

Another option all together:

Were you already considering an exit strategy at some point? You own a 30-40 employee company, which isn't oo small. If you are not married to this company for life, and have started to consider moving on, then this may be a kick in the pants.

You've had some major changes in your life. Having a pause would be a chance to step back, put the pieces back together, and re-establish yourself. It would also give you an opportunity for a clean break with the past.

Selling can take quite a while, so it wouldn't be an instant fix. But your entire life does not have to center around this company.

Chris Pitman

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 494

How about starting a new company, making it big, then sell the current company ? That way he can kick that man in the pants and at the same time have an income source ??Little Child 2013-06-27T15:56:52.490

41

Ok, someone needs to be a voice of reason here.

You are absolutely right not to react while angry. Very wise decision. Even when you've taken on all the advice you can, calm down as much as you can before making any decisions. It is unlikely that he will do the company harm UNLESS you react angrily.

The thing you need to remember is that he was a good employee before and there's no reason he can't continue to be, nor is there incentive for him not to be.

The only real issue here is your inability to separate the man from the act.

Having said that, it's totally understandable. Most people can't do that. But is it worth risking your business relationship, and indeed your business, over? Think hard about that question before you respond.

Even setting aside the legal aspect, it is going to cost you a lot of money to replace someone who, professionally, has done nothing wrong. Your completely-understandable ill-feeling will abate. But you've worked hard to build that business -- and so, by your account, has he -- and, hopefully, it's going to last.

I'm not suggesting you should just let it go. By all means, make it clear that you cannot trust him as much as you did. Reduce his freedom in business-rational ways. And, most importantly, cut your personal ties with him. Tell him you can't deal with him directly right now, and you certainly don't want to see him outside of work.

But don't do anything you're going to regret later.

pdr

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 18 957

6I completely disagree with It is unlikely that he will do the company harm UNLESS you react angrily. He already had sex with the man's wife, what's more sacred than that!?! There is absolutely no reason to assume this person will/is not acting in a way that is detrimental to the company already (in fact he already has). Seeing the back of him in a legally-advised fashion is IMHO the only way to proceed.Jongosi 2015-03-04T20:04:47.730

This seems like bad advice to me. Even setting aside the personal betrayal (which I don't think is irrelevant), whatever else he's done, the guy has personal interests (like, say, the wife's share of assets in a divorce) directly opposed to those of his employer. How can you trust such a person with authority?Casey 2015-09-01T19:42:55.640

@Casey: You're not the first to make that argument. Nor, I'm sure, will you be the last. Cause this conversation has been repeatedly deleted. This is not a chat room; you have a downvote button if you don't like it. I stand by my answer, 2.5 years later, and you're all welcome to thinly veil your moral outrage in rationality. But please stop doing so on this answer, for which I get notifications. There's a reason that I stopped answering on this site a long time ago.pdr 2015-09-02T22:50:25.973

I'm not looking for a discussion, or to be outraged, so much as to add information (or "suggest improvements") to your answer, which I don't think really works on its own merits. If you don't want to receive notifications about this answer I suppose you're welcome to delete it but it's the nature of the site that anyone with the rep can comment.Casey 2015-09-03T14:50:46.370

1While I agree on one level that his personal misconducts do not necessarily mean his professional will be effected. You still have a problem that needs addressing here. Let's say for example we have an employee Bob, and a second employee Jim. Well Jim sleeps with Bob's wife and as one would expect Bob and Jim while civil and professional have a severe tension between them as a result. Jim's your better employee. Do you let this tension fester? Do you fire Bob because Jim is your better employee? or do you fire Jim because of his behavior against Bob even though it was outside of work?RualStorge 2014-08-14T18:15:22.723

1@RualStorge: Neither. You keep them both until one or both acts unprofessionally (including working less effectively because of tension), and then warn and fire one or both for acting unprofessionally. In an ideal world, anyway; I am aware that many companies would find a way to fire Bob. Or, in an at-will situation, just go ahead and do it.pdr 2014-08-14T18:33:26.530

27

The problem with his idea of keeping things separated is that you're not the one who mixed business with personal, he is. And when it's something as serious as sleeping with your wife, the two stay mixed up permanently. I think that's about all I'm adding to the discussion that's unique in my answer but it's a hugely critical point. You're not in the wrong here for wanting him out and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

Now, it's possible that he's blinded by the fact that likes his work so much and just doesn't want to leave, but IMO, his behavior is somewhere between toddler in a man's body and borderline sociopathic. To not even feel enough shame to leave the company when you're found out in a situation like this suggests to me somebody who is extremely selfish to a level where it would be completely impossible to trust him with anything.

So yes, talk to the lawyers. Watch your back on the divorce/sabotage side of things. Cover your ass. But get him the hell out of your office ASAP. He's clearly completely incapable of taking responsibility for his own actions and has no sense of compassion or empathy whatsoever. You're going to suffer a setback, but that's nothing compared to the psychological drain you must be going through just to see the guy every day.

And if I were you, I wouldn't be afraid of letting the team know exactly why barring danger of libel, etc... There is nothing unreasonable about wanting him out of the office and I'm kind of shocked anybody would see it any other way. If everyone's as closely-knit as you say, it's better for the truth to come out than to just toss a valued team member out without explanation. It might feel uncomfortable letting everyone in on your business but remember that none of this reflects badly on you.

Erik Reppen

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 2 970

2+1 for "don't understand how the guy didn't resign in shame when discovered".occulus 2014-08-16T19:24:35.730

26

Fire him and deal with the downstream sequalae. Life is too short to work in an unhealthy environment. And I suspect you think you deserve better than how you have been recently treated. NOTHING is worth your health and happiness and you have a long road of recovery ahead of you. So get started....

David Espina

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 1 751

3Except as a business owner, he is also responsible for the health and happiness of his other employees. If you take your statement to the full conclusion without exception, then the employee and his wife did nothing wrong since they were just trying to be healthy and happy. You have to take in to account how your pursuit of health and happiness impacts others, double so when you are responsible for their well being.AJ Henderson 2013-01-09T19:04:35.233

1I think you make a reasonable point. And he ought to take some consideration for his other employees. At some point, though, he has to take care of himself; else he'll be no good for his other employees. It's like on a plane: put the O2 mask on yourself before helping others.David Espina 2013-01-09T19:29:12.943

3@AJHenderson, WTF? What could possibly lead you to believe that employees are responsible for their employees level of happiness?Zoredache 2013-01-09T19:58:45.913

@DavidEspina - I agree, I'm just saying that his personal happiness should be a factor in business decisions based on it's impact on the organization, not simply on himself. However, how it impacts him is a factor of how it impacts the organization.AJ Henderson 2013-01-09T21:19:16.933

@Zoredache - I'm talking about professional vs personal responsibilities. As a business owner, he has a responsibility to do what is best for the business and thus his other employee's who depend on and trust him. A factor of that is how it impacts him personally in so far as that impacts the business as a whole, but if it would hurt the business significantly, then he should mitigate that damage to the business prior to taking any action for personal reasons. Keeping personal and professional separate is very key to good business decision making.AJ Henderson 2013-01-09T21:21:20.987

1I suppose to clarify it another way, what would happen if the situation was with two employee's rather than the boss? The situation would be resolved based on the impact to the organization, not just to any one person's happiness. If the two people working together is more harm to the business than the benefit of having either party, then one of the parties would be asked to leave. In this case, it would obviously be the employee since the other party is the owner, but the decision on someone leaving should follow the same guidelines. The best thing for the business doesn't just change.AJ Henderson 2013-01-09T21:24:34.920

2@AJHenderson Nope, it does not change: In both cases, the best thing for the business is to get rid of the employee who knowingly created the situation and didn't care about the consequences. If you were to fire the cuckold employee, the result would most likely be very detrimental to the morale within the company. These things never remain secret and the impact could be far wider ranging than a private upset between 2 persons. And jealousy is a powerful demon. Firing a guy because someone "more important" slept with his wife? People have been killed for far less.Sylverdrag 2013-01-20T14:06:58.543

@Sylverdrag - except you don't fire them because someone slept with their wife. You fire them because they are unable to do their job. Regardless of the cause, their inability to work is a problem. Put another way, you wouldn't fire your lead developer if he slept with the janitor's wife and made the janitor unable to do their job. You'd fire the janitor because it has less of a negative impact on the company. Yes, the impact on morale is a factor in determining what is best for the company, but it isn't the only one.AJ Henderson 2013-01-21T14:07:07.440

3Last I checked, a janitor and a lead developer don't actually work together, so it wouldn't apply. But in the case of a 2 people actually working together at a job requiring close cooperation, yes, I would definitely fire the guilty party. Sleeping with a married woman is just something you don't do and when it the wife of someone you closely work with... it's pretty obvious you don't think with the right brain... out! Anyway, that's just an hypothetical. The current case involves a guy dumb enough to sleep with is boss' wife. Would you keep an idiot on the payroll?Sylverdrag 2013-01-21T15:37:34.327

21

I'm not sure anybody can really give you much advice here, I'm sorry that this has happened to you, over the last year I have gone through a marriage break up so on one level I know how difficult it is for you right now.

I've spoken to him. He says he's sorry about what's happened but he's also not leaving. He says his relationship with my wife should not a work matter and he's put too much work into the company to just get fired just because I'm the boss.

It's clearly up to you how you handle things at work, but you need to pull him up on this. If he was to be fired, and I'd question the legal aspect of that, he wouldn't be getting fired because you are the boss, but for a huge breech of trust. What he has done is morally wrong IMO and he cannot take the high ground here. If your wife had left you and he had started a relationship with her it would be very different.

The only advice I can give is things do get better with time. I know if I was in your shoes I'd have 101 things planned for "revenge", I'd keep a cool professional head.

A. Gilfrin

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 409

16

If you had slept with his wife would it be reasonable for him to expect you to leave the company? If not it seems like there might be an argument that if you fired him it might be an abuse of your position.

I'd personally do my best to keep business and home as separate as possible, but on the other hand if you have to look at him every day it could become difficult for you to get work done.

Bill K

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 1 082

8A better parallel is to remove yourself from the situation. Look at it as two other people who have the issue. If it became an issue that the two of them couldn't deal with and it was causing professional issues that were detracting more than they are adding to the company, then one of the people (likely whoever is least important) would be asked to leave. In the case of an owner, the other party is basically always least important. It is very important that it be a sound business decision rather than a personal decision though.AJ Henderson 2013-01-09T21:54:34.377

I agree, but I was already doing that--what I'm adding to this is to remove the positions. If employee A has problems with employee B (who isn't doing anything wrong at work and is not continuing to contact or harass A inside or outside of work), and A is making work conditions difficult for both of them, which do you get rid of? The only reason I can imagine it not being employee A is because he owns the company. I'm not saying he SHOULDN'T kick the guy out on his ass, I'm just saying that since the results change based on roles, you have to be careful.Bill K 2013-01-09T23:40:33.833

1@BillK remove the positions - I would think twice before shifting analysis that way; this may led too far away from the actual question asked (employer-employee) to keep answer relevant. I rather like your other "change direction", that is changing roles, or better yet going even further and trying to "remove yourself from the situation" as suggested above - that looks like a way to better understanding of the situationgnat 2013-01-10T08:17:45.193

1@BillK: In this case, employee B who acts like a saint at work is the guilty party. Whether or not he can keep a professional "facade" at work, he is in fact the cause of the upset, and employee A can not be reasonably expected to trust and collaborate with B. Suppose B beats up A outside work. Would you expect A to forgive and forget? Come in to work and not be afraid/angry/hurt... No matter how much of a nice/professional this guy pretends to be, the truth is that he decided to severely damage his work relationship for the sake of a shag with a married woman. How professional is he really?Sylverdrag 2013-01-10T17:44:11.947

I agree totally about who's guilty, but don't know how HR would respond to the situation if it was two employees that had this problem. I wouldn't be surprised to see both sent to councling and both fired if that failed to resolve the problem. Anyone here form HR seen this situation happen? I'm also not sure about violence outside the workspace unless it's covered by the Employee Handbook--I'm kind of curious now (I haven't been in any situations where this stuff mattered). My only point is that if his being the "Owner" makes a difference, there is a potential abuse of power.Bill K 2013-01-10T17:57:31.917

1@BillK Why shouldn't it make a difference? Use and abuse aren't the same thing and the owner is well within his rights to stop paying an employe that he can no longer be reasonably expected to trust.Sylverdrag 2013-01-20T14:37:25.627

11

Sorry to hear about that, but these things do happen. Hopefully this helps but I recommend that first you find someone you can trust to talk to about it. My suggestions are as follows:

  1. Get someone else up-to-speed (or yourself up-to-speed) with the application. No one should be indispensable
  2. Speak to lawyer and find out what you can do legally
  3. After getting someone up-to-speed, let him know - based on what your lawyer says - you need to let him go

Your personal life affects your work both in the positive and negative realm. Whilst trust may or may not be an issue, peace of mind is. Do you have the peace of mind knowing this person has access to your clients, knows your product inside out, and has the best handle of your business? Think about that. Only you can answer.

I hope this helps.

Amd4632

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 49

11

A person can't change his traits a lot. It's about broken trust which is quite personal.

Mostly human mind won't follow the corporate and government rules when these kind of too personal things happens. Get real with these people rather fooling yourself.

The impact on your business will be huge. What if you're upset with this guy and if that affects your business? That's also equally important (as long as you're make sense to your business)

A business should have alternative plans. You can't fire this guy because he's important. There are two important things

  • You have to seek out for the best talents outside.
  • Consider that he's not the last in the smart category. You can find plenty if you really invest time and effort.

Also his professional ethics can't be counted against the given incident. The bonding and trust and is important to run a business.

What if he quits his job, in which you've no control. So my opinion is that don't rely on these people to run your business. It's important to have smart people around but we can't take it for granted. They're human beings and free to move around, express and change their opinions over time.

sarat

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 165

10

It's your wife who has betrayed you. Perhaps one could say the employee has betrayed you. But surely the employee has not betrayed the company. If he is doing good work, firing him is an abuse of power. Both options are detrimental to the company:

  • Firing him is detrimental because it shows you are abusing power to fire someone for reasons not related to the company
  • Not firing him is detrimental because you still need to work with him.

In my personal opinion, the second option is still the lesser of two evils, considering that it's the two of you among dozens of people in the company. What about creating structures in such a way so you won't have to deal with him so directly?

gerrit

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 371

3I think the reasons are related to the company and the employee has in fact betrayed the company. The relationship formed between the owner and subordinate existed only due to work on behalf of the company. They never would have interacted professionally otherwise. An individuals moral character is defined greater than what happens while on the clock. This employee abused the relationship and trust of the owner and should be considered untrustworthy.ckoerner 2013-01-10T17:15:46.493

@ckoerner I didn't see anywhere that the employee and the bosses wife have met through the workplace. I know my bosses' wife through several contexts and none of them are through my employer.gerrit 2013-01-10T20:24:06.653

@gerrit, You're right. I am making an assumption that the relationship is due to the employee/employer relationship. It seemed logical to me at the time.ckoerner 2013-01-14T21:44:32.640

8

I think it is really a question of a) would it be legal to fire him and b) would it be a larger negative impact to the company to have him there or not. That's really a decision only you can make.

As long as it is legal to fire him, I'd say separate yourself from the personal issue as much as you can while trying to evaluate the overall impact of the situation. Part of that evaluation is taking a meaningful look at how it has impacted your working relationship, but also looking at what it would cost the company to lose him vs the problems the interpersonal trouble would cause. Only you can really be the judge of that equation.

Another thought is that if there is someone else you trust in your company that is familiar with this individual, it might be worth talking to them as an independent third party about what they feel the impact is on the workplace. They may have a better perspective on the real workplace issues that are being seen due to the personal issues.

One last additional thought, the best option may not be to keep him or to fire him, but rather if you feel that he hasn't done anything professionally that merits his firing, you could ask him to leave due to the trouble it is causing you, give him time to find a position and even possibly give him a recommendation based on his professional merits to help get him out the door. If you are able to make it a goal you are both working towards, it will likely ensure the best outcome for your company overall.

AJ Henderson

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 729

you could ask him to leave due to the trouble it is causing you, give him time to find a position - That's a good idea. // and even possibly give him a recommendation based on his professional merits to help get him out the door. - Hmm... Wow. Not sure about that one.Jim G. 2013-01-10T00:51:30.057

@JimG. - Yeah, not saying it would be easy to do, but if he hasn't done anything professionally wrong, it would be beneficial in getting a job elsewhere and that makes the problem go away quicker without spitting the guy for a personal problem you have. Not saying it's easy, but it is professional (assuming he deserves a recommendation on professional merit, which it sounded like he does based on how much he's done for the company.) It also reaffirms to the guy being asked to leave that it is a personal problem and not spite, which is likely to make the transition smoother.AJ Henderson 2013-01-10T14:09:52.603

@JimG. - To expand a little more just to be clear. If someone is going to go the route of ask them to find a new job and transition nicely, it is INCREDIBLY important that it is clear that it isn't spite and to be as supportive as possible in a professional capacity or you are likely to get unprofessional conduct back in spite. If the guy being removed starts getting upset or feeling like he's the butt end of a personal vendetta, he's much more likely to do something bad professionally that could hurt the company.AJ Henderson 2013-01-10T14:18:21.063

6

The first question to consider, is can it truly remain an issue outside of work? By that I mean, does it affect either your, or your employee's ability to do their job, to work with their co-workers and will it affect employee behaviour at work?

The second question to consider, is what are the likely outcomes of this affair and its link to your marriage breaking up on the office relationships if it becomes public? Will it have a wider affect on other staff?

The third question to consider, is can you continue to do your job whilst working with this individual?


Based on what you have said in the question, I believe it quite likely that your ability to manage this employee has been subtly compromised. You have an emotional response to him, and probably do not trust him either. The fact that he expects that this would not have any effect on his ability to work with you shows a lack of understanding of how people work.

You could terminate his employment contract for his conduct. The employee has acted in a way that it is reasonable to expect that you would be uncomfortable to continue to work with him, he has also undermined the trust you had in him. Both are arguable grounds for immediate termination with no compensation. The cost here is both the internal shock in the company that this person has left with no explanation, the loss of internal knowledge, and the risk that they attempt to claim compensation and the distraction on the business that can cause.

You could continue to employ him, and see how it plays out. You will be operating sub optimally, that over time this employee will not be able to carry out their duties properly - his loyalties are bound to be divided between his work and his home, and the overall cost on lost opportunity in terms of your focus and delivery, and this employee holding back on idea generation for personal reasons will have a significant cost to the business.

You could try to pay him to leave. Based on that he believes he could continue to work with you, I suspect that this would be an expensive option. But it's worth finding out what the cost would be.


In your situation, I would sack him, with a months pay, and a glowing reference. If he does go to court - and wins, take solace that every 2 pennies you pay in lawyers fees is one less penny that your wife will get in the divorce settlement.

Michael Shaw

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 1 039

5

This is a big question, and first off I applaud you for being so professional about it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who wouldn't be, not in the least illustrated by all the comments (and answers) along the lines of "just fire him".

I think @NimChimpsky has a point: one issue you need to address is this particular employee being "close to indispensible". But that's a completely separate question and one you need to deal with generally, not only with regards to this particular employee. As much as anyone likes to feel needed, nobody should be indispensible. What if someone like that simply becomes seriously ill and is out of the office for a week or two?

If it was me (which it obviously isn't), I'd probably start off with telling him to take 1-2 weeks vacation. Make it paid vacation in addition to his regular vacation time, if you need to. The point isn't to reward him in any way, it is simply to get him off the premises without being too confrontational about it and certainly without doing something permanent, like firing him or risking a breach of contract from your side. Use that time to get a proper breather, consult with a lawyer or two specializing in employment law, see how you manage without him at the office (maybe the other employees deserve more credit than you are readily giving them with regards to their knowledge about your products?), and lay out a strategy. Then, when he comes back, you will be in a much better situation to handle the necessary tasks professionally and in a legally correct manner.

Firing someone for the wrong reasons, or even for what is perceived as the wrong reasons, can cost you (and/or the company) dearly. Make sure you have all your legal bases very well covered before you even think of firing this employee, no matter how betrayed you feel.

Michael Kjörling

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 644

Man, if only everyone gave you paid vacation after you slept with their wife. What a world we'd live in then, huh?bharal 2015-01-22T00:39:14.307

0

First, maybe you may or may not have the legal reason to fire this employee on the state law.

But, on the common ethic, you have every right to fire him.

There could be a lot of reason, which can make his firing possible, if the state law doesn't allow it for you.

He knows it probably also very well. But, you said, it is his first workplace, so he probably can't really imagine his first switch. He needs a little bit of "support" to make this decision, this is what you should give him.

You can have any "reasoning": the company doesn't have money for his project any more, somebody needs to be fired because of the financial state of your company, etc. And, of course: although you are very satisfied with his work, unfortunately you see that his role/skills are incompatible to your business model. Or any similar.

Do this surprisingly, without any foreshadow! For example, I've seen once a company, where the boss fired a group of developers on the following way:

  1. He called them to a meeting into his office.
  2. While they were going to him, he called the system administrator and asked to deactive all of their access to the company network.
  3. In the office he waited them with their letter of termination.

This is what you should extend by a secretly made backup of your whole network, before the firing. It will be useful if there is a already a backdoor in your system, on this backup you will have at least chance to find it.


You can't avoid all of the risks. It is your decision, if you accept it, or you try to give them further time. In your place, I wouldn't give: if an employee can do this to you, you simply can't let him in their place.

Gray Sheep

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 1 060

This merely repeats point made and explained in this answer that was posted over a year ago. See Back It Up and Don't Repeat Others

David K 2015-12-04T21:20:54.233

@DavidK Right. Sorry, I didn't understood it on the first time. Although I find a difference between your answer and mine: first, I've referred to an ethical level which is (on my opinion) stronger as the written law, and second, I've gave him advice, how to reach his goal indirectly even if the law forbids the direct way. Although I admit my answer is probably not so useful as yours in a general sense.Gray Sheep 2016-05-05T18:02:13.223

@DavidK Btw, if an employee commit a crime (i.e. criminal deed as defined in the local criminal code) against his employer, it nearly surely allows the employer to fire him in the moment. The problem is that adultery is not a criminal deed in most countries criminal law, despite that sleeping with somebodys wife is a very hard thing in every possible ethical sense.Gray Sheep 2016-05-05T18:06:00.507

-2

Being in a company for a long time doesn't prove anything, if he deserves to be fired for performance then so it is.

However I believe you should look at the big picture and see how much you were invested in those relationships. Is what you're putting yourself through worth it?

You should be glad you saw their true identities! Accept reality for what is, forget the past, move on and enjoy life for what it is :) !

Cal

Posted 2013-01-09T13:50:39.207

Reputation: 63

42... yeah, because you can totally just ignore your wife leaving you for someone you employ and move on with life as if nothing happened ????enderland 2013-01-09T17:10:08.083

2That would depend at least partly on how much time he put into the business and how much time he put into maintaining his relationship with his wife... If the business has been coming before the wife for many years, then yes, perhaps he can just ignore it.Xav 2013-01-09T20:52:22.820

4What I'm trying to say, is that what happened happened. The best thing he can do is move on. Moving on in his life is much better than feeling like crap all the time for someone who is not even worth it. And what does it help if he didn't ignore it? he can go on and on in the same pattern and think of the story over and over again, but at the exepnse of his peace of mind and his health.Cal 2013-01-10T09:13:57.833