How to handle the situation where a student insists I am wrong during the class?

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I had one very vocal student in my Calculus recitation last year. Sometimes she would point out if I made a mistake in the lecture.

However, sometimes she would insist that I had made a mistake, even if I concluded it was NOT a mistake after careful consideration. She would continue to contradict me in front of the class, which was disruptive.

(I am a graduate student, so I probably seem less authoritative.) I want her to keep thinking critically and carefully during lecture. But disrupting the lecture excessively is a problem. How would you handle this situation?

kathleen

Posted 2014-04-15T07:20:31.553

Reputation: 438

5I've met people who did such just for vandalism.vonbrand 2014-04-16T21:59:55.820

How do you react when she is right? (This is the behavioral standard you can hold her to.)user11235 2014-04-20T13:42:31.080

@kathleen, can you give us an example of when this student thought there was a mistake, you confirmed that there wasn't, and how you explained that?Sue VanHattum 2014-05-04T14:49:36.417

@SueVanHattum, here is one example. I stated that the cotangent function is decreasing where it's defined, and gave some explanation based on the sine and cosine functions. She insisted cotangent was increasing. The encounter was rather short and I moved on quickly, but she stopped coming to recitation soon after. I think she was offended.kathleen 2014-05-07T23:59:24.533

Strange behavior, that. People often look offended when they are embarrassed, so I'd chalk it up to a bad day for her, and not worry about it.Sue VanHattum 2014-05-13T15:51:13.027

Answers

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It depends on how much time I can afford to spend on the problem. I check, as you did, whether I see a mistake. If not, I try to explain the math in a different way: a different conceptual approach, which is good for everyone anyway; perhaps replace the variables with numerical values, if appropriate; or replace a general function $f$ by a specific function. If there is time and the student seems fixed in her idea, I might ask her for an example. Often the student is assuming something extra or false, and her example might reveal it. Also, I can check the example and confirm again that there is no mistake. Finally, if there isn't time to work it out, I ask the student to see me after class or in my office hours. ("Maybe we can work this out after class. Are you free?")

Of course, it's very helpful to remain calm, receptive to the criticism, and seem happy to look into it. Controlling the tension in my voice and the look on my face took me a few years to learn. I now tend to seem excited by investigating mistakes. In part, I know I'm doing at least one of two good things: clarifying the lesson or dispelling someone's misconception.

user541

Posted 2014-04-15T07:20:31.553

Reputation: 2 873

16It doesn't look like anyone has mentioned it, but the first step might be to ask, "Show me where I made a mistake." If they can point to a line on the board, at least you now know what to discuss. If they can't, they just know that the answer is "wrong", then the next question is how do they know it's wrong? Did they memorize the "correct" answer from a book or web page, or is it just a feeling? If it's a website or book, you again have a point of reference, probably to be used out of class. If it's just a feeling, office hours or after-class discussion.Wayne 2014-04-16T22:26:28.683

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I have had this problem before with students who always think they're right. If a student continues to insist you made a mistake, when you know that you haven't, then tell the student to hold the thought and ask them to discuss it with you after class. Once the class is over, write the original problem on the board and ask the student to solve it. If their answer is correct, congratulate them on their thinking. If their answer is incorrect, show them why they are incorrect.

Secondly, make sure you plan your recitation and do the homework. I had a student that kept contradicting me one day in class, even after I showed him where his thinking was flawed. I told him to wait after class. It turned out that he had used the Chegg website to get his answer, and when we went to the website to look at it together, the answer was incorrect.

Put the onus back on them to prove to you they have a correct answer. This is very common in College Calculus, especially from students who took AP Calculus in High School.

Todd Thomas

Posted 2014-04-15T07:20:31.553

Reputation: 723

Very good advice. My offspring tended to be vehement (but not vociferous) about her solutions, and luckily was completely OK with being asked to take the conflict offline.Carl Witthoft 2014-04-16T14:24:39.317

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Taking some extra care to verify the details of a confusing bit of material (preferably with class involvement, intuition-building examples, etc.) is usually an excellent use of class time. Offering to talk about the issue further after class or during office hours is also a reasonable tactic when time is short or when dealing with a particularly insistent student.

However, I think there are also times when it is appropriate to take a firmer hand. A balance must be struck between nurturing critical thinking and being fair to the rest of the class—the loudest student should not get to dictate the course of the lecture. It's one thing if a good portion of the class is confused and one student is simply voicing their collective concerns. But it also happens that one student decides to treat the class as if it's their own personal tutoring session. In this case, it's appropriate to tell them to stop: "I understand you disagree, and like I said I'll be happy to assuage your concerns after class, but right now I need to finish this chapter, so please hold your comments."

In an ideal world, perhaps, classes have no official "end" time, the students are there to learn, and they simply stay until they are satisfied with their own understanding. But unfortunately, that's not the way most university systems work, and the types of classes graduate students are likely to be TAing tend to come with very tight time constraints. Something has to give.

Adam Bjorndahl

Posted 2014-04-15T07:20:31.553

Reputation: 1 626

11

Your student reminds me of me in my first algebra class, in 8th grade. I insisted that my answer was a 'better' solution to a homework problem. The teacher was an ex-Marine, who took the time to step outside the room with me and say something to the effect of "I understand you disagree with me about this problem, but I'm responsible for teaching this class, and I can't have you undermining my authority in the classroom, nor can we hold up everybody else's learning. I'm happy to talk about it with you, outside of class." It was the most respectful treatment I'd ever received from a teacher, and it meant a lot to me that he was willing to speak frankly to me this way. A math classroom isn't just about being right or wrong, it's a social activity.

Projecting wildly from my own life, the student might be insecure, have been rewarded excessively for being 'smart' or 'right', and be a bit behind the curve in social skills. Frankly pointing out the non-technical aspects of the situation can be a big help to a student like that ;-)

Spike0xff

Posted 2014-04-15T07:20:31.553

Reputation: 210

11

I agree with @kathleen, that being a young (and female) instructor can lead some students to be less respectful. In this case, we can use that to our advantage...

Long ago, when I was less secure as a teacher, I would be so embarrassed and bothered by making a mistake that it would decrease my ability to teach well for the rest of that class period. I knew that I couldn't be sure of never making mistakes, so early on in my teaching career I came up with a way to make those mistakes a positive part of classroom culture.

At the beginning of the semester, I explain that I will make mistakes from time to time, and I want students to catch them, so they do not stay on the board, and get written into students' notes. Every mistake a student catches is a 'donut point'. When the class has caught me 30 times over the course of the semester, I will bring in donuts. I tell them that there is a second reason for this system. Students too often believe anything a math teacher says, and that's not a good way to learn math. They should be questioning (in their minds) everything I say. Students like this system. Some try too hard to catch me, and I joke about them being awfully hungry.

Now, when someone thinks there is a mistake, and I show there wasn't, they are usually apologetic. I say that's no problem, because they have been brave enough to trust their own reasoning, which is a good way to approach math. If the person were to continue to insist (this hasn't happened to me, at least not in many years), I'd ask the class how many followed my reasoning. If even 2 or 3 people admit to not following my reasoning (there are more not admitting it), I would find other ways to explain. If this student is the only one, I'd ask them to see me in my office for help.

Sue VanHattum

Posted 2014-04-15T07:20:31.553

Reputation: 8 966

7

Humbly accept that you could be wrong, and be open to feedback. Turn it into a teaching moment when possible by inviting the student to come up and show their solution. If they are wrong, dont tell them why, but instead ask they class if they see any problem with the approach. It will not only get the class involved, but it will humble the student from trying to show off their knowledge. If you are the one that is wrong, simply admit it, explain the error in your thinking, thank the student and move on. This way it moves away from an "I'm right and you are wrong" argument, but a way for other students to recognize where mistakes are possible and to learn from it.

If the student is consistently disruptive, speak to them personally and ask them not to be disruptive but to please bring their concerns to your privately. Obviously you want the class to know when/if you are making mistakes, and you should humbly tell the class when the student does reveal an error in your logic so they can learn from it. But you dont want the disruptions to become a distraction from the materials you need to get through.

Look at it this way, would you rather focus be on proving the student wrong and defending your reputation, or would you rather focus on helping the class to learn, regardless of who is making mistakes? We all make mistakes. Help your students to learn from them.

user934

Posted 2014-04-15T07:20:31.553

Reputation: 71

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quid 2014-04-15T20:34:54.260

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It is not good enough for you to "think carefully" and conclude and state that you did not make a mistake.

You need to prove to yourself and the class that you are correct.

If you cannot do this on the spot show a bit of humility and tell the class that you think you are correct and you will confirm via email ASAP after the lecture.

Jp McCarthy

Posted 2014-04-15T07:20:31.553

Reputation: 499

I am nit sure this addresses the question. OP asks for advice in a diffeernt situation.András Bátkai 2014-04-15T11:39:04.470

2This is the situation: A student thinks the teacher makes a mistake, the teacher says she didn't, the student insists that she did. I am saying it is not good enough for the teacher to just have a situation where she "concluded it was NOT a mistake after careful consideration". She needs to prove she was correct.Jp McCarthy 2014-04-15T11:42:47.163

On the other hand, one shouldn't allow the schedule of the class to be dictated by the loudest students.Adam Bjorndahl 2014-04-15T12:05:32.523

1If the student is not being satisfied then I am not surprised that she is making herself loud: it should be black and white and this isn't a student saying she is not understanding, this is a student claiming that the teacher is wrong. In mathematics we should be able to clear this up.Jp McCarthy 2014-04-15T12:08:43.390

Etiquette should govern this mostly. If a student is concerned, they should bring it up after the class is over to assauge their concerns. However, said student shouldn't be a white knight for the rest of the class. What benefit does it serve to argue in front of the other students other than to show yourself as a know it all?Brian 2014-04-15T15:01:27.600

3Surely the common case is that the student states there is a flaw in the proof and the teacher states there is not. Since you cannot practically provide all proofs in fully written-out formulae of predicate logic, there isn't really any difference between "thinking carefully" that you haven't made a mistake, and believing that you have proved you're correct. One student cannot keep holding up the class by rejecting proofs that the others all accept, or else you'll be lucky to have proved that 1+1=2 by the end of an hour.Steve Jessop 2014-04-15T15:07:15.123

4... which might be reasonable progress in a set theory class, not so much in calculus :-)Steve Jessop 2014-04-15T15:08:38.207

@staticx The benefit is that if the student is correct then she can teach everyone something. (And if the student is incorrect, then she can learn something, but I agree that it would be selfish of her to interrupt the class too often in this case.)Trevor Wilson 2014-04-17T00:31:58.340

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This happened to me this year briefly. "I have literally a degree in this. I have done it professionally now, for something like 5 years. When I say it's this way, it's absolutely this way." Shut them up immediately.

Edit: Since more details were requested, I will follow this up. You have three problems:

  • They don't respect you

  • They are disrupting your class

  • And they are being rude TO you.

The most immediate issue is the classroom disruption. It is evident from your comment that you are not in charge of the situation here. This may be an unusual situation, or it may be that you were never in charge and this student is making it substantially worse. In either case, the correct thing to do is to move on without them. Put them into a position where they have to accept your decision to move on, or brazenly violate your control of the class. State you are moving on, AND THEN DO IT. You are giving them permission to disrupt your class by doing anything else. Don't consent to it. The other students in the class are well aware the student is being a jerk - the social pressure exerted on them when it is apparent you know what you are doing and they don't is enormous, so if they insist on doing the fight publicly, you can win it. They WILL shut up.

Next up, there is the issue that they don't respect you/your abilities. You can address this directly as I did in my pithy answer, or you can do it indirectly. This student is evidently confident about their math abilities - you are a grad student. You want to see them realize how out of their depth they are? Put some real analysis on the board. Or better yet, some complex analysis. Nothing like a zeta function to terrify a student. If they are the keen and excited student you describe them as, this is the perfect way to deal with the issue. (Edit: to be clear, I suggest you do this after class, in private)

Last, if all this fails, you have the issue that they are being rude to you, and apparently your efforts to control them in class or gain their respect have failed. At this point you need to deal with this directly through the university bureaucracy. This is the worst case, but it will deal with the problem. You have a student who is refusing to let you teach, and you have every right to have them removed. This isn't elementary school, they don't have a legal right to this education, if they don't like it they can GTFO. Just the threat of this is sufficient in the once in a VERY rare while it is needed. I've TAd for a decade now, and I've only had to threaten this once, and certainly I've never needed to carry it out.

moose

Posted 2014-04-15T07:20:31.553

Reputation: 5

1Welcome to the site! We prefer answers on this site to be slightly more extensive, drawing from examples personal experience and/or research. Perhaps you can expand your answer based on your experiences.Brian Rushton 2014-05-04T23:27:44.233

Since you asked, I edited it to include a few more details.moose 2014-05-05T00:29:20.527