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In a cultural function, some seats were reserved for the distinguished persons. But an ordinary spectator wanted to have one of those reserved seats which were empty. He said to the guard, "Can I sit there?" The guard replied, "Yes, you can. But you may not."
What did the guard mean by these modals : 'can' & 'may'?
Sandip Kumar Mandal
Posted 2020-05-06T21:21:19.287
Reputation: 1 615
51
This is what was meant:
Yes, you are capable of sitting there. But you are not permitted to do so.
It's using the following senses of the words (from Merriam-Webster).
Can:
1 a : be physically or mentally able to
// He can lift 200 pounds.
May:
1 b : have permission to
// you may go now
Both can and may have multiple senses, and frequently can is used to express permission (rather than capability) in the sense of may quoted here.
So, the response from the guard, drawing a distinction between the two, is a kind of snide reply—inferring one sense of can to the person asking the question, rather than what would normally be assumed. No doubt the guard actually knew what the person was asking and just wanted to put them down subtly.
Jason Bassford
Posted 2020-05-06T21:21:19.287
Reputation: 34 584
42I disagree with 'subtly'. The guard response is rude and direct. Obscure, maybe, but not subtle. – Jeffrey – 2020-05-07T12:04:53.670
13@Jeffrey Not everybody who responds in such a way is being rude. For instance, a prescriptivist who always corrects people could do so out of habit or to make a simple point, rather than trying to make an example out of a particular person. (A correction rather than a put-down.) Or, with the right tone of voice, it could be a joking response that both parties smile and laugh about. Passive aggressive behaviour is normally subtle to most. It might be obvious to some, but not to others. – Jason Bassford – 2020-05-07T13:04:01.747
5@JasonBassford : your comment is correct, but you are both speculating : Jeffrey's comment was just spring-boarding off of your own last-line "no doubt" opinion about it being a subtle put-down; your more circumspect comment that we cannot really say what the guard's frame of mind was is much more pertinent; but if you are going to speculate, it's only fair if you allow others to speculate also – landru27 – 2020-05-07T14:19:53.227
8Those who subscribe to language descriptivism would argue that the guard was wrong to correct the spectator. Take note that the Meriam webster link provided by Jason does include the following definition for Can: "have permission to —used interchangeably with may." A decent population of native speakers prefer "can" over "may" when asking permission, unless using "may" is necessary to remove ambiguity. In this case described by OP, there was no ambiguity; the guard knew what the spectator meant. – Brian – 2020-05-07T14:25:19.253
4@Brian I agree but I would go further. At least in the USA, a very large portion of the population strongly prefers "can" to "may". It is almost to the point that the only times I hear "may" used in the sense of permission is by English teachers and when there is a risk of ambiguity. – TimothyAWiseman – 2020-05-07T23:34:19.927
2@TimothyAWiseman Agreed. "May I has cheezburger" isn't a meme! – alephzero – 2020-05-08T01:46:24.167
1The power disbalance is what makes it rude and direct. Same goes for teachers. Joking response only works amount equals; otherwise it's a putdown. – Seva Alekseyev – 2020-05-08T17:09:53.247
1This distinction between can and may has been made so often that I'm not convinced there is "rudeness" going on. It's become trite. I'm not arguing the guard was in no way being rude, but I could also see it being a friendly way of saying, "Physically, it's possible, but I'm not permitted to let you sit there." It's also possible the OP was talking about an usher, not a guard. – J.R. – 2020-05-10T21:42:20.447
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In common parlance in the 21st century, it is probably fair to say that "can I" is the more common construction for enquiring about both ability and permission. However, some prescriptivist people insist that "Can I" should only be used to mean "Am I capable of", and that someone wishing to ask permission ("Am I allowed to") should use "May I".
The guard, then, is saying the spectator is physically capable of sitting in those seats, but is forbidden from doing so, and in doing so, passive-aggressively 'correcting' the spectator's grammar.
stevekeiretsu
Posted 2020-05-06T21:21:19.287
Reputation: 3 245
11When I was a kid in a London local-authority infants school (age 5-7), in the 1950s, the teachers used to say "You can, but you may not" and wait for the child to rephrase the question. – Michael Harvey – 2020-05-07T06:17:24.123
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2I am reminded of a line from the children's book Abigayil, in which the main character, a mother cat, says to one of her kittens, "It's 'may I' not 'can I', and no you may not!" – landru27 – 2020-05-07T14:14:11.413
4But a guard is not a teacher of grammar; +1 for marking this as passive-aggressive. I would add "officious" and "superior" and, worst of all, not helpful. Their response can be expected to leave a bad taste in the mouth of someone who was asking a fair question in a common, idiomatic way. If a fire breaks out are they to announce "those among us who choose continued existence may wish to exeunt expediently" and pat themselves on the back? – CCTO – 2020-05-07T14:53:36.937
5@CCTO - personally, I would agree that this prescriptivism, expressed in this way, is snotty, pedantic and unhelpful, but I was attempting to remain moderately neutral for the sake of my answer! – stevekeiretsu – 2020-05-07T14:55:14.597
@CCTO: The guard could have simply said "You may not", or perhaps more helpfully "Sitting is permitted only on designated benches, such as the one over there". I think "can I" should be interpreted as a multi-purpose question, combining "May I" and "Do you know of anything reasons why I might be be unexpectedly unable to do X, or might find X unexpectedly useless?" – supercat – 2020-05-07T16:16:10.143
3"I can't if you're going to stop me" – gunfulker – 2020-05-08T08:54:40.130
@Lenne: I think one of my teachers (or whoever was supposed to watch the kids during recess) in elementary school responded to that exact question of mine with "I don't know, can you?" and I had no idea what they were trying to say because they never explained it (I didn't understand that it was passive-aggressive prescriptivism until I was older). I just learned to ignore their response and go anyway. :P – V2Blast – 2020-05-08T18:28:58.900
@MichaelHarvey: If I asked “Can I?” and was told “You can, but you may not”, I would consider my question to have been answered (albeit in a snarky manner) and would feel no reason to ask it again. – Scott – 2020-05-08T21:02:22.087
@Scott: Nah, I think the take-away is "don't be confusingly passive-aggressive to a 7-year-old when they need to go to the bathroom and can I is a perfectly valid construction". – V2Blast – 2020-05-08T21:10:07.813
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There are some things you can do, but considering the social and legal implications some things should not be done. E.g.: you can enter the president's office, but you may not do so for hearing/seeing unwanted things.
Anand Vasudevan
Posted 2020-05-06T21:21:19.287
Reputation: 21
26The guard was being a smartass, which is surprising, guarding duties usually doesn't attract people with high-brow attitudes and a proclivity for splitting hairs over usage of the conditional mood over the subjunctive. – Stian Yttervik – 2020-05-07T14:06:21.853
along these same lines, also be aware of the subtle distinction and overlap between may and might : both can be used for both possibility and permission, e.g., "I might go to the store later" vs. "might I have another cookie?"; and "if it isn't too crowded, I may go to the movies" vs. "I may not have pets in my apartment"; someone being as pedantic as this guard was could play games with "may" and "might" – landru27 – 2020-05-07T14:26:01.810
1My mother used this statement on my siblings and I constantly. We were slow learners, I guess. – NomadMaker – 2020-05-07T17:42:51.050
@StianYttervik Alternately, the guard was answering the question in a strictly correct manner as one would expect from institutionally trained people (I'm assuming royal palace type guard, not rent-a-cop). Being aware that the spectator would be likely to misinterpret his answer the guard also provided a translation set to his level of ignora..., errr, understanding. ;-) – mcalex – 2020-05-08T12:28:23.533
@StianYttervik You mean, nobody with a high Liberal Arts education works as a guard? You wish ... welcome to the gig economy. – Kaz – 2020-05-09T15:07:06.357
If you may not sit somewhere, then the only way you can sit there is by disobeying the denial of permission. That's why can has replaced may; we operate under the assumption that will honor the permission or denial. Or else, we do whatever we want and don't ask for permission! A compliant person regards can and may to be the same; lack of permission renders them unable to do it. – Kaz – 2020-05-09T15:08:44.790